Ignition Problem/Neatral Safety Switch

[Finster]

Hi,
I have a 1959 Skyliner and I replaced my Dashboard harness recently and everything in my car works(signals, lights, brights, heater, lighter etc.) but now my car wont start. I have gone over the wiring and it all looks good(so I think)
- If I put a screwdriver to the hot screw(battery) and the positive on the starter solenoid then the car starts.
- In general when I turn the key the dash lights go on but there is no cranking.
- I tried switching out the ignition coil with another one that I know works but nothing has changed.
- My backup lights only work when I jiggle the shift indicator while in reverse.
- Can it be my Neutral Safety Switch? Everything worked fine before I took the dashboard out but now there is no cranking.
- Can I test the Neutral Safety Switch harness for power?
- Is it hard to adjust/change the neutral safety switch on a 59 Skyliner?
- What else could it be?

Thanks for your time.

[Ford Only]

It could be a lot of things but here are a couple of things you can check.
Turn the ignition switch to the on position and see if the positive side of the coil has voltage, should have about 8 volts or so.
If you have voltage to the coil remove the ignition switch and turn it to the start position and see if you have voltage, should have 12 volts.
If you have voltage the problem may be the neutral safety switch or a wire may be broken somewhere. if you have voltage in the start position you can run a test wire to the start terminal of the solenoid and the car should start.
If you do not have voltage at the coil you probably have something wired wrong, check the ignition switch to make sure you have 12 volts going into it. I think it gets its voltage from the headlight switch, not sure if the voltage goes to the lights first or the switch first but you need 12 volts at the switch for everything to work.

[Finster]

Thank you for the information. I'm getting closer to a solution. I ran a wire from my ignition switch to the start terminal of the solenoid and when I turned the key it started right up.
Would this mean my problem is either with the Neutral safety switch or perhaps the wire that goes from the neutral safety switch through the firewall to the harness?

Another thing I tested:
I tried unhooking the two wires on the neutral safety switch and then touching them together and having someone turn the key - I thought this would bypass the switch but nothing happened. Is there a way to test the wires coming from the harness under the dash to the neutral safety switch wires to ensure they are working properly? I have three wires that come from various harnesses under the dash and plug into the wires coming from the neutral safety switch.
Thanks for your time.

[Ford Only]

You probably need a wiring diagram to figure out whats wrong or add new wires.
The wire on the start terminal of the starter switch would go to the neutral safety switch and from there to the start terminal on the starter solenoid. Hooking the two wires together on the safety switch should allow the car to start but in any gear.
Not sure what you need to do other than trace wires.
I looked at my 59 and I have a red and a orange wire that would go to the switch but I have them jumpered because I want it to be able to start in any gear.

[Finster]

Thanks. Do you know if its hard to replace the neutral safety switch. It looks straightforward- two screws- but my concern is that it takes some adjusting to get it to work with the gear shift lever.
I have an extra autolite sitting around somewhere. I think the part is B9A7-7A247-A (it says 2703549 on it).

[Ford Only]

Its easy to install but if you have slop in the shift lever it may take some adjusting to get it right, not the safe way but I just by pass it on my cars.

[Finster]

Hi,
So I am still in the process of troubleshooting the ignition problem and I have narrowed it down some more.
I have a question regarding what I call an extra two connections I have after all things are hooked up. There is a wire harness that contains the wires that go to the TOP switch under the dash to operate the retractable. In addition to the wires for the top there is another wire that comes out of this harness and it splits and has two connections on it (one blue female and one blue clip). My labels fell off these two and I am trying to figure out where they go. I am thinking something with the lights etc but I don't know for sure.
Any ideas?
Thanks

[Ford Only]

I looked under my dash all I can see is a red & a orange wire which goes to the neutral safety switch & the 3 wires that goes to the top switch.

[Finster]

Thank you for checking - I sincerely appreciate it.

I replaced the engine harness that goes to the solenoid, wipers, brake lights, neutral safety switch etc. That solved half the problem as now I have power to everything again.
Ironically now I have the opposite problem. When I reconnect the battery the engine starts cranking right away. Regardless of what position the key is in etc. As soon as I put the positive connection on it cranks. The key in the ignition can be in acc, off or start and it does it in all 3 positions.

The harness is set up correctly based on the diagram(there's not many connections). The ignition wire is hooked up properly under the dash and after doing a quick inspection it looks like all the other connections are fine.

Thanks for your time.
Any ideas?

[Ford Only]

For the starter to start cranking the engine with the key off, you would have to have a hot wire going to the start terminal on the solenoid or the solenoid itself could be stuck.
To check the solenoid disconnect the wire that goes to the start terminal, if it still cranks then the solenoid is the problem. If the problem is the wire being hot, you will have to trace it to the 12 volt source.
That wire should be going to the neutral safety switch then to the start terminal on the ignition switch.

[Finster]

Thanks for the information - It looks like my Starter Solenoid was stuck open. Luckily I had a new one laying around so I switched it out and fixed that problem. I must have cooked it when using a screwdriver to start the car touching the battery to ignition bolt on the solenoid.

Unfortunately now my original problem is still there. When I turn the key it wont start. If I bypass using a screwdriver from the positive battery to the ignition bolt on the solenoid the car starts. He is the important part - when I put the harness wire back onto solenoid after it starts then the car turns off.

Could it be that some functions of my headlight switch are bad?
Does this power some parts of the harness?

Thanks in advance

PS - I tried to upload diagrams of the two harnesses for future reference but the file size is apparently too big.

[Ford Only]

Your going to have to trace your wires, the wires that go to the solenoid are going to need to be traced to see where they end up.
One of the wires ends up at the coil supplying 12 volts during cranking the other one powers the solenoid to engage the starter.
The wire that engages the starter goes to the neutral safety switch and from there to the start terminal on the ignition switch,
You seem to have a problem with the wire that goes to the start terminal on the solenoid.
There are several ways you can trace the wires but you can't have but a few that need checking,
Take the wire that you think should be going to the start terminal of the starter loose, hook up a test light to the wire ( one test light to wire end and the other to ground)
Take your ignition switch out and check to see if you have 12 volts on the battery terminal, if so take the wire that you think goes to the starter solenoid and touch it to the battery terminal
and see if it lights the light. If it lights up I don't know what to tell you as that is what it should do, if it doesn't light the test light keep checking wires till you find the one that does.
When you find that wire you it should go to the neutral safety switch and then to the start terminal of the starter.
If you have 12 volts on the battery terminal of ignition switch with the head light switch on or off you probably don't have a problem with the head light switch.

[Finster]

OK - I did some testing with the multi-meter over the weekend and here is what I found.
I have 12.4 volts at the battery
I have 12.4 volts at the coil, acc and bat terminals on the ignition switch.
I do NOT have power at the start terminal of the ignition switch when I turn the key.
I have do NOT have power going to the positive side of the ignition coil when the key is in the on position.
When I turn the key I have no power going to the battery side of the starter solenoid - the small screw that the brown wire is hooked up to.
I checked the resistor and even changed it with a new one I had. The resistor gets hot when the key is in the on position - I don't remember if that is supposed to happen or not.
Any suggestions would be welcomed and appreciated.

Keep in mind while I was doing work this winter:
I replaced the dashboard harness
I replaced the engine harness
I replaced the resistor unit
I replaced the Starter solenoid
This car ran perfectly for 10 years but the wiring was cracked and old which is why I replaced it.

[Ford Only]

I will try to address some of your problem but you still need to trace the wires and probably get a good wiring diagram.
12. 4 volts at the battery is a little low but OK.
You should only have about 8 volts at the coil and only with the ignition switch on, the resistor gets hot when the ignition is on.
Check your ignition switch, disconnect all the wires except the battery power wire (thick yellow one).
With just the battery power hooked up to the switch check the other terminals with the switch off to see if any other terminal is hot,
none should be. Turn the key to the accessory position, check to see if that terminal on the switch has power it should but only that one and the power source.
Now turn the switch to the on position and check the ignition terminal and the accessory terminal they should both be hot along with the battery terminal.
Now turn the switch to the start position and you should have a hot start terminal, the accessory terminal will not be hot.
If your switch works this way then it probably is good and you will have to trace the wires to see if they are going where they are supposed to go.

[Finster]

Thank you for spending so much time with me on this problem. I have checked all my connections again and I have run a few more tests. I also went through the wiring diagrams again as I have them on file (engine and dash board harnesses).
- When I turn the key to the start position the start spot on the ignition coil gets 12.4 volts.
- When I turn the key to the on position the Battery, Ignition Coil and Acc all get 12.4 volts. The start spot gets 0 volts.
- There is 12.4 volts going into the resistor and 8volts coming out(that's good).
- when I turn the key the coil gets 8 volts (that's good)

Try and follow me here. When I jump the car using a screw driver. I jump it from the battery to the start side of the solenoid. After I jump it if I put the wires back on the solenoid the starter keeps trying to start. I keep the wires off and the car runs as normal.

I also bypassed the neutral safety switch by tying the two connections together. As soon as I hook up the positive side of the battery the car starts - it doesn't matter if the key is turned.

Perhaps would you have time to talk on the phone and help me troubleshoot?

Thanks in advance.

[Ford Only]

The wire that you have going to the solenoid, the one that goes to the start terminal should only be hot when the ignition switch is turned to the start position at the switch.
You must have the start wire going to the ignition side of the switch.
When you jump the neutral safety switch you should only have power when you turn the key to start position and that power should go to the start terminal on the solenoid.
I don't know if I can help on the phone but you can e-mail me at fordonly@austin.rr.com and I will give you my phone number.

[Gyides24]

Did you ever happen to figure out what the issue was. I am having the exact same problem currently. Power at ignition switch. Key in on position voltage to black wire on solenoid nothing at start wire on solenoid. When tempting to start the car no voltage on start wire at solenoid. Neutral safety switch was jumped when I got the car. I'm hoping whatever solved your problem will solve mine. Thanks.

[Finster]

Yes - We figured out the problem.

Just to re-cap I replaced all wiring etc inside the car and I could not start the car - Even though most other things worked.

My issue was that the Wiring Harness I had purchased from one of the main vendors was made incorrectly. Long story short the rubber molded plug from the dashboard harness had the wires in the wrong place so when I plugged it into the harness under the hood they were not lining up properly. Another words - the red from the hood was not connecting to the red from the dash - it was connecting to a different color. It was only two of the wires which is why everything else worked. Personally this was a major mistake by the manufacturer.

They way to figure it out is to look at the wires in the dash harness and look where they plug into the harness under the hood. The colors should match up. Yellow from the engine plug should be connecting to Yellow from the Dashboard plug etc. We cut the rubber end off and wired in my old connector to the end of the harness.

Hopefully this isnt your issue - Good luck.